Fluid exchange machines
Posted by: PTEN editor
My boss is wondering about flush/fill machines based on a recent recommendation from his regular repair shop. I didn’t have a straight answer for him because I don’t have a formal opinion yet, but what are your thoughts on these machines? Do you use them in your shop?
So do you sell the value-added flush of tranny, power steering, etc. fluids because you feel these machines that you hook-up and can let go while you work on something else are really doing valuable preventative maintenance?
Thanks!
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July 11th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
As a real “flushing” equipment manufacturer, I’ll weigh in on this one.
To clarify, our equipment is designed to flush heat exchangers (oil coolers, radiators, heater cores, condensers, evaporators, etc.), when a failure or a problem truly requires some effective system cleaning to be done. This has nothing to do with the fluid exchange process.
Fluid exchangers have become known as flushing machines, and this IMHO appears to be used as a (marketing) term to make the consumer believe that cleaning is being done while the fluid is being changed. But such equipment does little or nothing to perform any cleaning other than what waste removal occurs when you simply drain out old fluid and install fresh.
Fluid exchanges at recommended service intervals are required such as coolant exchange and trans fluid exchange; and these machines offer a simplified method to accomplish this necessary service.
Some coolant exchange machines offer the additional value with a vacuum fill features that will assist in compltely filling some cars that have those troublesome “air” pockets. But they cannot clean blockages from the radiator, heat exchanger, or engine block.
Trans fluid exchange machines can exchange much more fluid that the old “drop the pan” method, and this has true value; but this method does not address the service of the filter that “drop the pan” did.
Power steering and brake fluid exchangers may have grown from the sucess of fluid exchange equipment, but I am not aware of any OEM recommended service interval requirements to change these fluids. This does not mean that they cannot perform a fluid exchange when needed; just is it really needed?
Yes, you work on something else and be more efficient, which is good business. Yes, you can do a valuable preventive maintenance, which is good service.
Yes, you can do it to simply add another line to the repair bill, which is unscrupulous. Yes, it can be a “license to print money”, which is just plain wrong.
July 18th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
I completely agree that some types of “flushig” are necessary. But be very carefull using a flush machine on a transmission. Most transmission companies will void a warranty if they are flushed. Terminology is the key here. When using the term “flush” this implies you are adding a cleaning agent to the equipment. The term “exchange” is exactly that. Trans fluid exchange is the only OE accepted method of servicing trans fluid other than pan drop. I prefer to preform a pan drop along with an exchange. Also, I have seen many oe maintance schedules that do now include brake fluid and p/s fluid exchanges. Once again, no Flushing only exchanging.
July 18th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
As an ASE Master Technician, I believe the need for these machines.Some are useful and necessary to help maintain vehicles.They do produce GOOD revenue as long as they’re not over sold and can be shown the value of the service being sold to the customer. Using the PROPER fluids during service is VERY important.
July 20th, 2008 at 8:26 am
I don,t believe in a transmission flush machine. You put solvents in the trans and dislodge particles that would have been better left alone. Also some varnish buildup will keep seals from leaking, remove the varnish and you have transmission failure. You can suck brake fluid and PS fluid out and then refill with fresh fluid and bleed out old fluid about as fast as you can hook up a flush machine. A Coolant Flush machine is a great idea if you check PH and replace the depleted additives.
July 20th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
I believe the need for these machines are necessary, as an added value to the customer. The proper use of the right fluids are extremely important, the service is not an instant fix for a troubled component or a neglected one. If the fluid replacements are done on a regular basis I think the service life for the components will be greatly increased.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Most fluids due need to be changed at some point but flushing is not recamended,what I due not like about the exchange machines is they due leave a surtine amont of dirty fluid in,and they have become more of a push due to profit and time verses need or quality job
July 22nd, 2008 at 6:36 am
Fluid exchange machines can be a double edge sword. First, they can be a technician’s best friend by allowing them to quickly change fluids on a vehicle. Take a lot of newer automatic transmissions for example, where’s the dipstick? The dipstick is either not there or the vehicle requires the use of a special tool to properly measure fluid level. The machines can also increase shop productivity by reducing the time needed to perform services.
However, the fluid exchange machines can also be hazardous to a shop’s credibility too if used improperly. Over marketing can lead consumers to believe you’re performing unneeded services to their vehicles. GM and Ford have TSBs about not needing to have vehicle systems flushed as a maintenance item. In an effort to boost profit from each service, many shops try to use a single type of coolant or ATF in their machines. This “universal” type fluid may not be the best fluid for the vehicle and in some cases, may cause other concerns such as shuddering for the driver. Many shops also market flushes as silver bullets for whatever problem the vehicle is experiencing. Although this may bring more money into the shop initially, it may also create unhappy customers that will take their business elsewhere. Fluid exchange machines are just like any other tool in a shop’s arsenal, they are only as good as the person using them. Used properly the machines can boost productivity and the bottom line. If over marketed and improperly used, they’ll serve as more ammunition for those investigative reports on the auto repair industry that show up on the local TV news from time to time.
July 25th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Like many other services the Fluid exchangers are are a tool to help the majority of your customers happy.
The expectations of our fathers and grandfathers to have their car for 20 or 30 years have long passed away. In our disposable society most people are happy if the car they buy lasts 10 years. Therefore the use of tools like this makes sense for the majority of consumers.
I guess it could be said “there is the right way and there is the IMHO way”
I think many shops can attract the youth labeled “emo” by pronouncing IMHO that way
Joe
July 25th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
I think some of the posters have missed the point I tried to make about the difference between a “transmission flushing machine” and a “transmission fluid exchanger”; THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE!. Web search “transmission flush machine” and you will find the cooler line, dipstick sucking, and direct connect (pan off) fluid exchnagers. With the only exception being that some manufacturers do suggest (optional) adding a little bottle of cleaner before performing this service. How can this be a warranty voiding service when this is how every dealer does it today.
July 26th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
i think fluid exchange machines should advance to next level where as the old fluid is analized and condition and contamination level is reveiled giving the tech the ability to forecast problems a better onboard computer to give specs and program fluid exchange to spec
August 1st, 2008 at 1:10 pm
I have experienced the need to flush transmissions inorder to resolve an issue, but not as a maintenance service. Overall I feel there are too many oem specific fluids be it transmission fluid, coolant, and even brake fluid. I don’t feel one size fits all.
Its like mouth wash, some people benefit from it, while others do not. Put the wrong fluid in someone’s car and then ask, was this a benefical service?
August 1st, 2008 at 1:21 pm
I believe in the service. If you sell it correctly for preventive maint and not as a afterthought, and the customer keeps up on this, there is no problem as the trans does not have time to create sludge or varnish. Also todays cooling systems need this or you will not replace all the coolant. I used to do this with auto trans back before they had these machines the hard way by draining and refilling the trans and running the engine and keeping the trans full untill the trans fluid came out of the cooler line clean. That was a pain. Thank god for modern equipment.
August 1st, 2008 at 4:03 pm
I don’t believe a “machine” is needed to perform most fluid services on any vehicle. And I don’t believe in what some shops sell as a service for instance when ONLY a flush is sold for a transmission service. I have 25 years experience and can easily flush any fluid on a vehicle without the assistance of a “machine”. My money is better spent on keeping up with technology, not perfecting the “wallet flush”…